Five vendetta-style burglaries and gas deliberately turned on at Royal British Legion club in Bitterne

Daily Echo: Peter Everson and British Legion members at the club. Peter Everson and British Legion members at the club.

IT is the year when Hampshire veterans mark 100 years since the outbreak of the First World War.

But instead of preparing for one of their most important anniversaries in years, one Royal British Legion branch is being targeted in a series of “vendetta”-style attacks.

Members of the Bitterne clubhouse in Southampton are facing bills for thousands of pounds’ worth of damage after their headquarters was burgled and smashed up five times – in just two weeks.

Slot machines, pool and snooker tables and a window have been destroyed at the club – and £8,000 has been stolen from safes along with a 46in television.

Vandals even broke into an outdoor shed and opened nitrogen gas cylinders which could have destroyed the club had they exploded.

Chairman Peter Everson, 74, believes the branch, based in Upper Deacon Road, is being deliberately targeted.

He said: “Everything they have done to this place has been to try to shut us down. It’s no ordinary burglary where someone comes in, takes what they want and leaves. These people keep coming back.

“The first time they tried to break in they must have given up because they couldn’t get in. But the second time they prised open the doors. We found two crowbars and an axe after they managed to prise open the office.

“Then on the third occasion they broke a window in the lounge and came in and busted up all the slot machines upstairs and even the snooker tables.

“They smashed them to bits so we could not operate them and they also stole our 46in television that we use to show football.

“They smashed open the pool table and took the money but it would not have been much. They took some money from the safes in the committee room too. But they didn’t go behind the bar or anything so we think they must have a vendetta against us.”

Mr Everson, who served in the Merchant Navy as a first class steward, added: “If the gas canisters had blown up they would have blown one side of the building off. These people do not care how much damage they do.”

He said he was unsure how much money was taken and was waiting for the insurance company to come back about the cost of the damage.

Falklands War veteran and the former leader of Southampton City Council, Royston Smith, branded the vandals the “lowest form of life”.

He said: “It’s a disgusting act that just shows how disrespectful some people are. It’s cowardice. The sort of people who are doing this are not serving their country or protecting our nation but are vandalising a symbol of the people who have done so, and that makes them the lowest form of life.”

Daily Echo:

Cllr Smith, who was an RAF engineer, added: “It’s 100 years since the First World War and yet people have no respect. They would not be able to do this without those people fighting for their liberty in the past and that is the great irony.”

Southampton City Council leader Cllr Simon Letts said: “It’s really disturbing that a much respected institution has been subjected to a sustained attack like this and I would urge the police to do everything they can in their power to bring the perpetrators to justice.”

Mr Everson added: “This was supposed to be an important year for us with the anniversary of the First World War but someone has come in here and decided to do as much damage as they could. But they did not know how resilient we are. We are a charity of ex-servicemen and we have been going for 60 years and we are determined to carry on.”

Comments (29)

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7:59am Mon 3 Mar 14

jen1 says...

I hope the vile pieces of scum that did this are caught and strung up.
I hope the vile pieces of scum that did this are caught and strung up. jen1
  • Score: 14

9:07am Mon 3 Mar 14

SilvanDryad says...

As the air is 78% nitrogen, can someone tell me how to make pure nitrogen explode? I thought it was used to prevent explosions...
As the air is 78% nitrogen, can someone tell me how to make pure nitrogen explode? I thought it was used to prevent explosions... SilvanDryad
  • Score: -3

9:26am Mon 3 Mar 14

SFC-Matt says...

Nitrogen is an inert gas. A release of this could not cause an explosion. In fact it is used widely on ships/aircraft fuel tanks to prevent explosions.
Nitrogen is an inert gas. A release of this could not cause an explosion. In fact it is used widely on ships/aircraft fuel tanks to prevent explosions. SFC-Matt
  • Score: 7

9:44am Mon 3 Mar 14

SilvanDryad says...

So either the tanks were not of nitrogen, or the Echo doesn't know about the properties of this gas wrong. I wonder which it is?
So either the tanks were not of nitrogen, or the Echo doesn't know about the properties of this gas wrong. I wonder which it is? SilvanDryad
  • Score: 2

10:11am Mon 3 Mar 14

Tenderhearts wife says...

trouble is the young people today are not taught about the 2 world wars as they used to be, the fact that there are very few surviving grandparents from that era also means that they do not get to understand the effects and the importance of the roles that people played during the wars. Thus the disrespect.
trouble is the young people today are not taught about the 2 world wars as they used to be, the fact that there are very few surviving grandparents from that era also means that they do not get to understand the effects and the importance of the roles that people played during the wars. Thus the disrespect. Tenderhearts wife
  • Score: 2

10:26am Mon 3 Mar 14

good-gosh says...

SilvanDryad wrote:
So either the tanks were not of nitrogen, or the Echo doesn't know about the properties of this gas wrong. I wonder which it is?
P1V1=P2V2. Therefore, fracture the containment and …. BANG
[quote][p][bold]SilvanDryad[/bold] wrote: So either the tanks were not of nitrogen, or the Echo doesn't know about the properties of this gas wrong. I wonder which it is?[/p][/quote]P1V1=P2V2. Therefore, fracture the containment and …. BANG good-gosh
  • Score: 1

10:43am Mon 3 Mar 14

derek james says...

where were the police?
where were the police? derek james
  • Score: -1

10:54am Mon 3 Mar 14

SilvanDryad says...

"P1V1=P2V2. Therefore, fracture the containment and …. BANG"


But they just opened the valves so... Might have suffocated themselves...
"P1V1=P2V2. Therefore, fracture the containment and …. BANG" But they just opened the valves so... Might have suffocated themselves... SilvanDryad
  • Score: 2

11:20am Mon 3 Mar 14

Quizbook says...

Tenderhearts wife wrote:
trouble is the young people today are not taught about the 2 world wars as they used to be, the fact that there are very few surviving grandparents from that era also means that they do not get to understand the effects and the importance of the roles that people played during the wars. Thus the disrespect.
How do you know it was young people ?
[quote][p][bold]Tenderhearts wife[/bold] wrote: trouble is the young people today are not taught about the 2 world wars as they used to be, the fact that there are very few surviving grandparents from that era also means that they do not get to understand the effects and the importance of the roles that people played during the wars. Thus the disrespect.[/p][/quote]How do you know it was young people ? Quizbook
  • Score: 1

2:49pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Norwegian Saint says...

I served for Her Majesty and it turned my life around for the better. If I was in charge I would bring back National Service, those first weeks teach you respect (even though you want to murder the instructors!) No matter what age these criminals are, they would never have done this after serving.
I served for Her Majesty and it turned my life around for the better. If I was in charge I would bring back National Service, those first weeks teach you respect (even though you want to murder the instructors!) No matter what age these criminals are, they would never have done this after serving. Norwegian Saint
  • Score: -1

2:55pm Mon 3 Mar 14

loosehead says...

isn't this a case of people having a place to go with people from a similar background (armed forces) having it ruined by what ever age Toe Rags?
This is usually done by young thugs who take pleasure out of wrecking other peoples fun or premises not to steal but to cause as much damage as possible.
have you ever seen one of those gas bottles take off when the gas is released wrongly?
It's a pity who evers doing this didn't find out as a hospital appointment/bed might be a lucky escape for them.
Has anyone got a guard dog to lend them or a pit bull?
isn't this a case of people having a place to go with people from a similar background (armed forces) having it ruined by what ever age Toe Rags? This is usually done by young thugs who take pleasure out of wrecking other peoples fun or premises not to steal but to cause as much damage as possible. have you ever seen one of those gas bottles take off when the gas is released wrongly? It's a pity who evers doing this didn't find out as a hospital appointment/bed might be a lucky escape for them. Has anyone got a guard dog to lend them or a pit bull? loosehead
  • Score: -1

3:28pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Reality-man says...

Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.
Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags. Reality-man
  • Score: -1

5:46pm Mon 3 Mar 14

loosehead says...

Reality-man wrote:
Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.
most are ex military as an ex TA soldier by giving my number I can become a member also family & friends can join.
I think your post is extremely crass as many of these old soldiers,sailors & airmen have fought in wars have you?
[quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.[/p][/quote]most are ex military as an ex TA soldier by giving my number I can become a member also family & friends can join. I think your post is extremely crass as many of these old soldiers,sailors & airmen have fought in wars have you? loosehead
  • Score: -4

5:50pm Mon 3 Mar 14

loosehead says...

I can't believe any poster can think this act of vandalism is justified or funny yet I say what I think of the low life's who've done this & some coward gives me a thumbs down? come on post it if you find this act against veterans okay don't be scared or are you safer behind a thumbs down?
I can't believe any poster can think this act of vandalism is justified or funny yet I say what I think of the low life's who've done this & some coward gives me a thumbs down? come on post it if you find this act against veterans okay don't be scared or are you safer behind a thumbs down? loosehead
  • Score: -2

7:13pm Mon 3 Mar 14

charrlee says...

Hmmmm.......a long shot, but try this.
Field Marshall Haig, sometimes known as "Butcher Haig", has been blamed for what has been considered the unnecessary deaths of over two million British soldiers in WW1, by using old-fashioned tactics (getting out the trenches and walking towards the enemy) against modern technology (German machine guns). He was also the founder of the British Legion.
Some individuals, through some logic of their own making, may feel that by targeting the British Legion club, they are somehow registering a protest about Haig's actions.
Hmmmm.......a long shot, but try this. Field Marshall Haig, sometimes known as "Butcher Haig", has been blamed for what has been considered the unnecessary deaths of over two million British soldiers in WW1, by using old-fashioned tactics (getting out the trenches and walking towards the enemy) against modern technology (German machine guns). He was also the founder of the British Legion. Some individuals, through some logic of their own making, may feel that by targeting the British Legion club, they are somehow registering a protest about Haig's actions. charrlee
  • Score: -3

9:00pm Mon 3 Mar 14

loosehead says...

so come on coward let's hear why the thumbs down?
so come on coward let's hear why the thumbs down? loosehead
  • Score: -4

9:40pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Ronnie G says...

So why not Haig House then?
Because this is nothing to do with Haig.
The deliberate targeting is what it is.
So why not Haig House then? Because this is nothing to do with Haig. The deliberate targeting is what it is. Ronnie G
  • Score: -3

10:28pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Reality-man says...

loosehead wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.
most are ex military as an ex TA soldier by giving my number I can become a member also family & friends can join.
I think your post is extremely crass as many of these old soldiers,sailors & airmen have fought in wars have you?
Why are you attacking me? 'Have I fought in wars'?? I'm saying if there is any link between these establishments (Establishments not memebers!!!!!!) and the armed forces, can some current serving armed forces people not help out and catch the scum that are doing this? Last week I saw current Army services personnel helping with the floods in Romsey, putting sandbags out etc. I was simply wondering if any support could be offered to the club by existing servicemen to help. Surely they have lots of people trained in surveillance. I find your attack quite odd
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.[/p][/quote]most are ex military as an ex TA soldier by giving my number I can become a member also family & friends can join. I think your post is extremely crass as many of these old soldiers,sailors & airmen have fought in wars have you?[/p][/quote]Why are you attacking me? 'Have I fought in wars'?? I'm saying if there is any link between these establishments (Establishments not memebers!!!!!!) and the armed forces, can some current serving armed forces people not help out and catch the scum that are doing this? Last week I saw current Army services personnel helping with the floods in Romsey, putting sandbags out etc. I was simply wondering if any support could be offered to the club by existing servicemen to help. Surely they have lots of people trained in surveillance. I find your attack quite odd Reality-man
  • Score: 2

7:29am Tue 4 Mar 14

skeptik says...

'Butcher Haig' and outdated tactics? If that were true the war would have been lost very quickly. Yes, the British army entered an industrial war with years of colonial policing behind it and they had to learn fast. The tactics were dictated by what the enemy was doing and the terrain. The Prussian/German army suffered horrendous casualties too - bad leadership? So many beliefs about WW1 are plain wrong, we hear of lions led by donkeys - not so, that was said of the British army at Sevastapol many years before. The British army officer corp suffered -pro rata - a higher casualty rate than the rank and file and more than the enemy officer corp including 80 plus general officers. The British soldier hated the war we are told- yet many joined Yeomanry and TA units post war and kept them at full strength, millions turned out or went silent at Haig's funeral post war. It is wrong that the same old falsehoods are repeated when so many gave so much - the truth is all we can offer. We were the junior partner to the French army and often were under command of the allied powers.
'Butcher Haig' and outdated tactics? If that were true the war would have been lost very quickly. Yes, the British army entered an industrial war with years of colonial policing behind it and they had to learn fast. The tactics were dictated by what the enemy was doing and the terrain. The Prussian/German army suffered horrendous casualties too - bad leadership? So many beliefs about WW1 are plain wrong, we hear of lions led by donkeys - not so, that was said of the British army at Sevastapol many years before. The British army officer corp suffered -pro rata - a higher casualty rate than the rank and file and more than the enemy officer corp including 80 plus general officers. The British soldier hated the war we are told- yet many joined Yeomanry and TA units post war and kept them at full strength, millions turned out or went silent at Haig's funeral post war. It is wrong that the same old falsehoods are repeated when so many gave so much - the truth is all we can offer. We were the junior partner to the French army and often were under command of the allied powers. skeptik
  • Score: -3

7:38am Tue 4 Mar 14

loosehead says...

Reality-man wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.
most are ex military as an ex TA soldier by giving my number I can become a member also family & friends can join.
I think your post is extremely crass as many of these old soldiers,sailors & airmen have fought in wars have you?
Why are you attacking me? 'Have I fought in wars'?? I'm saying if there is any link between these establishments (Establishments not memebers!!!!!!) and the armed forces, can some current serving armed forces people not help out and catch the scum that are doing this? Last week I saw current Army services personnel helping with the floods in Romsey, putting sandbags out etc. I was simply wondering if any support could be offered to the club by existing servicemen to help. Surely they have lots of people trained in surveillance. I find your attack quite odd
I'm man enough to apologise yet I see the cowards are still giving me the thumbs down?
So Please accept my apology!
[quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.[/p][/quote]most are ex military as an ex TA soldier by giving my number I can become a member also family & friends can join. I think your post is extremely crass as many of these old soldiers,sailors & airmen have fought in wars have you?[/p][/quote]Why are you attacking me? 'Have I fought in wars'?? I'm saying if there is any link between these establishments (Establishments not memebers!!!!!!) and the armed forces, can some current serving armed forces people not help out and catch the scum that are doing this? Last week I saw current Army services personnel helping with the floods in Romsey, putting sandbags out etc. I was simply wondering if any support could be offered to the club by existing servicemen to help. Surely they have lots of people trained in surveillance. I find your attack quite odd[/p][/quote]I'm man enough to apologise yet I see the cowards are still giving me the thumbs down? So Please accept my apology! loosehead
  • Score: -4

7:42am Tue 4 Mar 14

loosehead says...

skeptik wrote:
'Butcher Haig' and outdated tactics? If that were true the war would have been lost very quickly. Yes, the British army entered an industrial war with years of colonial policing behind it and they had to learn fast. The tactics were dictated by what the enemy was doing and the terrain. The Prussian/German army suffered horrendous casualties too - bad leadership? So many beliefs about WW1 are plain wrong, we hear of lions led by donkeys - not so, that was said of the British army at Sevastapol many years before. The British army officer corp suffered -pro rata - a higher casualty rate than the rank and file and more than the enemy officer corp including 80 plus general officers. The British soldier hated the war we are told- yet many joined Yeomanry and TA units post war and kept them at full strength, millions turned out or went silent at Haig's funeral post war. It is wrong that the same old falsehoods are repeated when so many gave so much - the truth is all we can offer. We were the junior partner to the French army and often were under command of the allied powers.
In the first & second war it was an honour neigh duty to fight for King & Country.
many turned out with pride as they were doing their duty many never wanted to go to war in France but it was their duty.
In the second world war I wonder what would have happened if the Allies had let the populace know about the evidence of death camps & the fact America refused to bomb the rail tracks leading to them(refused any allied attack)?
[quote][p][bold]skeptik[/bold] wrote: 'Butcher Haig' and outdated tactics? If that were true the war would have been lost very quickly. Yes, the British army entered an industrial war with years of colonial policing behind it and they had to learn fast. The tactics were dictated by what the enemy was doing and the terrain. The Prussian/German army suffered horrendous casualties too - bad leadership? So many beliefs about WW1 are plain wrong, we hear of lions led by donkeys - not so, that was said of the British army at Sevastapol many years before. The British army officer corp suffered -pro rata - a higher casualty rate than the rank and file and more than the enemy officer corp including 80 plus general officers. The British soldier hated the war we are told- yet many joined Yeomanry and TA units post war and kept them at full strength, millions turned out or went silent at Haig's funeral post war. It is wrong that the same old falsehoods are repeated when so many gave so much - the truth is all we can offer. We were the junior partner to the French army and often were under command of the allied powers.[/p][/quote]In the first & second war it was an honour neigh duty to fight for King & Country. many turned out with pride as they were doing their duty many never wanted to go to war in France but it was their duty. In the second world war I wonder what would have happened if the Allies had let the populace know about the evidence of death camps & the fact America refused to bomb the rail tracks leading to them(refused any allied attack)? loosehead
  • Score: -2

9:53am Tue 4 Mar 14

skeptik says...

So many untruths yet again - look up hansard, the archives for despatches and reports - not books where an author has sided one way or other. Blaming America ? We knew what was going on before they entered the war. The question has been asked - why did the people of the warring nations still go to fight year after year carrying on the slaughter - national propaganda? Truth is once the ball was rolling the propaganda and hatred came from the music halls and local tales of barbarism on all sides - this had an effect at the beginning of WW2 when politicians were worried that truth would be seen as propaganda especially by those who had seen WW1 and the propaganda that in time proved in many cases to be untrue. Honour and duty - as someone who has spent much of my life in the military and studied both wars - do you know what the desertion rates were - before D Day they went through the roof - you may wish to shoot the messenger - the truth is there if you wish to take the rose tinted specs off. My own father was a regular from 1935 until 1949 - he would have been very uncomfortable at being called a hero even with an MiD.
So many untruths yet again - look up hansard, the archives for despatches and reports - not books where an author has sided one way or other. Blaming America ? We knew what was going on before they entered the war. The question has been asked - why did the people of the warring nations still go to fight year after year carrying on the slaughter - national propaganda? Truth is once the ball was rolling the propaganda and hatred came from the music halls and local tales of barbarism on all sides - this had an effect at the beginning of WW2 when politicians were worried that truth would be seen as propaganda especially by those who had seen WW1 and the propaganda that in time proved in many cases to be untrue. Honour and duty - as someone who has spent much of my life in the military and studied both wars - do you know what the desertion rates were - before D Day they went through the roof - you may wish to shoot the messenger - the truth is there if you wish to take the rose tinted specs off. My own father was a regular from 1935 until 1949 - he would have been very uncomfortable at being called a hero even with an MiD. skeptik
  • Score: -2

10:04am Tue 4 Mar 14

Reality-man says...

loosehead wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.
most are ex military as an ex TA soldier by giving my number I can become a member also family & friends can join.
I think your post is extremely crass as many of these old soldiers,sailors & airmen have fought in wars have you?
Why are you attacking me? 'Have I fought in wars'?? I'm saying if there is any link between these establishments (Establishments not memebers!!!!!!) and the armed forces, can some current serving armed forces people not help out and catch the scum that are doing this? Last week I saw current Army services personnel helping with the floods in Romsey, putting sandbags out etc. I was simply wondering if any support could be offered to the club by existing servicemen to help. Surely they have lots of people trained in surveillance. I find your attack quite odd
I'm man enough to apologise yet I see the cowards are still giving me the thumbs down?
So Please accept my apology!
Of course I accept your apology. It's clear that you misunderstood my original comment. I was upset as I have huge respect for our armed services. I accept my suggestion is unlikely but imagine the look on their faces if these scumbags returned to be met by serving soldiers!
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: Is there any direct connection between the armed forces and The British Legion establishments? If so can they not provide a some troops to lay in wait for these scum bags.[/p][/quote]most are ex military as an ex TA soldier by giving my number I can become a member also family & friends can join. I think your post is extremely crass as many of these old soldiers,sailors & airmen have fought in wars have you?[/p][/quote]Why are you attacking me? 'Have I fought in wars'?? I'm saying if there is any link between these establishments (Establishments not memebers!!!!!!) and the armed forces, can some current serving armed forces people not help out and catch the scum that are doing this? Last week I saw current Army services personnel helping with the floods in Romsey, putting sandbags out etc. I was simply wondering if any support could be offered to the club by existing servicemen to help. Surely they have lots of people trained in surveillance. I find your attack quite odd[/p][/quote]I'm man enough to apologise yet I see the cowards are still giving me the thumbs down? So Please accept my apology![/p][/quote]Of course I accept your apology. It's clear that you misunderstood my original comment. I was upset as I have huge respect for our armed services. I accept my suggestion is unlikely but imagine the look on their faces if these scumbags returned to be met by serving soldiers! Reality-man
  • Score: -1

10:50am Tue 4 Mar 14

Big Mac says...

Time for a 'call to arms' gents, me thinks.
Time for a 'call to arms' gents, me thinks. Big Mac
  • Score: -2

11:45am Tue 4 Mar 14

charrlee says...

Ronnie G wrote:
So why not Haig House then?
Because this is nothing to do with Haig.
The deliberate targeting is what it is.
Yes, yes, yes........yawn.....
....but what about the MOTIVE?
[quote][p][bold]Ronnie G[/bold] wrote: So why not Haig House then? Because this is nothing to do with Haig. The deliberate targeting is what it is.[/p][/quote]Yes, yes, yes........yawn..... ....but what about the MOTIVE? charrlee
  • Score: -2

11:53am Tue 4 Mar 14

charrlee says...

skeptik wrote:
'Butcher Haig' and outdated tactics? If that were true the war would have been lost very quickly. Yes, the British army entered an industrial war with years of colonial policing behind it and they had to learn fast. The tactics were dictated by what the enemy was doing and the terrain. The Prussian/German army suffered horrendous casualties too - bad leadership? So many beliefs about WW1 are plain wrong, we hear of lions led by donkeys - not so, that was said of the British army at Sevastapol many years before. The British army officer corp suffered -pro rata - a higher casualty rate than the rank and file and more than the enemy officer corp including 80 plus general officers. The British soldier hated the war we are told- yet many joined Yeomanry and TA units post war and kept them at full strength, millions turned out or went silent at Haig's funeral post war. It is wrong that the same old falsehoods are repeated when so many gave so much - the truth is all we can offer. We were the junior partner to the French army and often were under command of the allied powers.
Never mind all that whitewash - please explain this : why did Haig send troops directly into the line of fire of the German machine guns over and over again? We know that happened, don't we? It's well-documented with primary and secondary evidence.

Mr/Mrs/Ms Skeptik - please answer that specific question : "why did Haig send troops directly into the line of fire of the German machine guns over and over again?" without the slightest hint of digression from you.
[quote][p][bold]skeptik[/bold] wrote: 'Butcher Haig' and outdated tactics? If that were true the war would have been lost very quickly. Yes, the British army entered an industrial war with years of colonial policing behind it and they had to learn fast. The tactics were dictated by what the enemy was doing and the terrain. The Prussian/German army suffered horrendous casualties too - bad leadership? So many beliefs about WW1 are plain wrong, we hear of lions led by donkeys - not so, that was said of the British army at Sevastapol many years before. The British army officer corp suffered -pro rata - a higher casualty rate than the rank and file and more than the enemy officer corp including 80 plus general officers. The British soldier hated the war we are told- yet many joined Yeomanry and TA units post war and kept them at full strength, millions turned out or went silent at Haig's funeral post war. It is wrong that the same old falsehoods are repeated when so many gave so much - the truth is all we can offer. We were the junior partner to the French army and often were under command of the allied powers.[/p][/quote]Never mind all that whitewash - please explain this : why did Haig send troops directly into the line of fire of the German machine guns over and over again? We know that happened, don't we? It's well-documented with primary and secondary evidence. Mr/Mrs/Ms Skeptik - please answer that specific question : "why did Haig send troops directly into the line of fire of the German machine guns over and over again?" without the slightest hint of digression from you. charrlee
  • Score: -2

12:09pm Tue 4 Mar 14

charrlee says...

skeptik wrote:
So many untruths yet again - look up hansard, the archives for despatches and reports - not books where an author has sided one way or other. Blaming America ? We knew what was going on before they entered the war. The question has been asked - why did the people of the warring nations still go to fight year after year carrying on the slaughter - national propaganda? Truth is once the ball was rolling the propaganda and hatred came from the music halls and local tales of barbarism on all sides - this had an effect at the beginning of WW2 when politicians were worried that truth would be seen as propaganda especially by those who had seen WW1 and the propaganda that in time proved in many cases to be untrue. Honour and duty - as someone who has spent much of my life in the military and studied both wars - do you know what the desertion rates were - before D Day they went through the roof - you may wish to shoot the messenger - the truth is there if you wish to take the rose tinted specs off. My own father was a regular from 1935 until 1949 - he would have been very uncomfortable at being called a hero even with an MiD.
The purpose of "books where an author has sided one way or other" is to widen and deepen our knowledge and understanding of any given situation by throwing new light on it with new facts and/or opinions. No doubt the serious, genuine authors will have consulted Hansard themselves.
[quote][p][bold]skeptik[/bold] wrote: So many untruths yet again - look up hansard, the archives for despatches and reports - not books where an author has sided one way or other. Blaming America ? We knew what was going on before they entered the war. The question has been asked - why did the people of the warring nations still go to fight year after year carrying on the slaughter - national propaganda? Truth is once the ball was rolling the propaganda and hatred came from the music halls and local tales of barbarism on all sides - this had an effect at the beginning of WW2 when politicians were worried that truth would be seen as propaganda especially by those who had seen WW1 and the propaganda that in time proved in many cases to be untrue. Honour and duty - as someone who has spent much of my life in the military and studied both wars - do you know what the desertion rates were - before D Day they went through the roof - you may wish to shoot the messenger - the truth is there if you wish to take the rose tinted specs off. My own father was a regular from 1935 until 1949 - he would have been very uncomfortable at being called a hero even with an MiD.[/p][/quote]The purpose of "books where an author has sided one way or other" is to widen and deepen our knowledge and understanding of any given situation by throwing new light on it with new facts and/or opinions. No doubt the serious, genuine authors will have consulted Hansard themselves. charrlee
  • Score: -2

12:45pm Tue 4 Mar 14

loosehead says...

skeptik wrote:
So many untruths yet again - look up hansard, the archives for despatches and reports - not books where an author has sided one way or other. Blaming America ? We knew what was going on before they entered the war. The question has been asked - why did the people of the warring nations still go to fight year after year carrying on the slaughter - national propaganda? Truth is once the ball was rolling the propaganda and hatred came from the music halls and local tales of barbarism on all sides - this had an effect at the beginning of WW2 when politicians were worried that truth would be seen as propaganda especially by those who had seen WW1 and the propaganda that in time proved in many cases to be untrue. Honour and duty - as someone who has spent much of my life in the military and studied both wars - do you know what the desertion rates were - before D Day they went through the roof - you may wish to shoot the messenger - the truth is there if you wish to take the rose tinted specs off. My own father was a regular from 1935 until 1949 - he would have been very uncomfortable at being called a hero even with an MiD.
try watching the world at war & listening to the military despatches where the American refused permission for a bombing raid on rail tracks going to the gas chambers which would have slowed the extermination of the Jews by a hell of a lot
[quote][p][bold]skeptik[/bold] wrote: So many untruths yet again - look up hansard, the archives for despatches and reports - not books where an author has sided one way or other. Blaming America ? We knew what was going on before they entered the war. The question has been asked - why did the people of the warring nations still go to fight year after year carrying on the slaughter - national propaganda? Truth is once the ball was rolling the propaganda and hatred came from the music halls and local tales of barbarism on all sides - this had an effect at the beginning of WW2 when politicians were worried that truth would be seen as propaganda especially by those who had seen WW1 and the propaganda that in time proved in many cases to be untrue. Honour and duty - as someone who has spent much of my life in the military and studied both wars - do you know what the desertion rates were - before D Day they went through the roof - you may wish to shoot the messenger - the truth is there if you wish to take the rose tinted specs off. My own father was a regular from 1935 until 1949 - he would have been very uncomfortable at being called a hero even with an MiD.[/p][/quote]try watching the world at war & listening to the military despatches where the American refused permission for a bombing raid on rail tracks going to the gas chambers which would have slowed the extermination of the Jews by a hell of a lot loosehead
  • Score: -2

12:48pm Tue 4 Mar 14

loosehead says...

is it you Skeptic who's the idiot putting thumbs down at anyone who doesn't agree with you?
Try watching the program (Yesterday channel) on the final solution.
they had interviews with death camp survivors who witnessed allied planes flying directly above them & they were praying they would bomb the whole camp but the American ( McArthur?) said no why ?
is it you Skeptic who's the idiot putting thumbs down at anyone who doesn't agree with you? Try watching the program (Yesterday channel) on the final solution. they had interviews with death camp survivors who witnessed allied planes flying directly above them & they were praying they would bomb the whole camp but the American ( McArthur?) said no why ? loosehead
  • Score: -2

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